It depends on what translation you use. The Biblical writers didn't know the difference between a fish and a whale yet. But I suppose fish might be a better translation
Bertrand Russell's teapot. Originally, this was his response to 'how do you know God does not exist', but works pretty well for most of 'how do you know [whatever] didn't happen'.
Also, I don't think anyone is actually claiming or has ever claimed that the events described in the poetic Book of Job really happened, are they? Everyone's on board with that as an illustrative story?
@slugcharger, I'm not sure exactly what it is you're referring to but after an event has happened you can look through anything and make some case for it having been predicted beforehand. The bible doesn't say "in 1798 the pope will be imprisoned following the French revolution and Catholicism will lose much of its power, making atheism rise". It makes generalistic and (on the face of things) meaningless predictions. In 1400 they didn't know that this would happen in 1798. Someone looked at it afterwards and made it add up. @Fiddley, the celestial teapot is a concept made in rebuttal to some arguments about God. The idea is that there is a small teapot orbiting the sun between Earth and Mars. It is too small to be picked up by any telescope we have at the moment, so you can't prove it doesn't exist. Like God, that isn't a good enough argument for its existence. @cr, prophecies in the Bible didn't actually all happen. The Messiah was prophecised to be born in Bethlehem, but Jesus wasn't
actually born in Bethlehem. Of the Gospel writers, one expressed surprise that Jesus was not born in Bethlehem, one doesn't mention it at all, Matthew decided that Mary and Joseph must have lived in Bethlehem when Jesus was born, and only Luke fabricated the "Christmas Story", which doesn't fit with actual history and is completely implausible. There is plenty of internal contradiction in the Bible which is why it cannot all be true.
Well, it's my opinion in the sense that it's what I think. It is also completely true. Did it not help you work out why the Bible might not be true? You did ask for a response. And I thought mine was relatively unopinionated.
Technically He was born in Bethlehem. Mary was born in Nazareth, and Jesus lived the most of His childhood in Nazareth, since He went back from Egypt, until the move to Capernaum on the start of His public life.
Presumably, you're referencing Leviticus 11:13 and 19 ('And these you shall detest among the birds; they shall not be eaten; they are detestable: the eagle, the bearded vulture, the black vulture...the stork, the heron of any kind, the hoopoe, and the bat').The word 'birds' there is literally עוֹף, meaning 'winged creatures' in Hebrew. The concept of a bird didn't exist in Hebrew culture until well after the alleged Biblical time of this event.
Right. They were not exactly at the vanguard of phylogenetics. If they don't understand the difference between birds and bats, then why get hung up on whether some fairy tale involves a man living inside a fish or a whale. Do you think the Hebrews knew what the difference was? Do you think they knew what a mammal was? It seems pointless to me to argue about this.
I'm not hung up on the details of fairy tales, I'm responding to people who are because they are trying to argue the point. I have never once in my life seen or heard someone say "Jonah was swallowed by a fish" OR "Jonah was swallowed by a whale" and then stepped in and said "actually.. that's not true." ... and I would never. Is this the reason why you are stalking me around the site leaving juvenile attacks aimed at me? Because you believe in fairy tales that I don't?
Another dude swallowed by a whale who had the misfortune of being in a fictional story other than the Bible, and is therefore not as famous or well regarded.
And following your logic, every Biblical character who ever went to Italy, is real. I’ve also seen the book that they are there, proving they are also real.
Why are there so many people here commenting "fish, not whale!" ... why has this meme become SO pertinent in the minds of many Christians? I can understand feeling embarrassment when asked if you believe in a book that includes a fable about a man who lived inside of a whale, and I can understand tying to look for some way to deflect or explain away that criticism.... but.... when did anyone think that it sounds better to live inside of a fish? If anything that's even less plausible.
Ok kalbahamut, we get it, you have a real problem with Christianity. Enough with the insults already! We all know you disagree with it. Comments like this are not productive, and only server to cause trouble.
troll (n./v.) - a person who makes a deliberately offensive or provocative online post; to make a deliberately offensive or provocative online post with the aim of upsetting someone or eliciting an angry response from them
Also not even close. A person who makes truthful, honest, sincere and factual comments, like those I've made here, is not a troll. It's not my fault if some people have such fragile and delicate beliefs that they can't handle any comment they even suspect might be critical of those beliefs.
You believe a man lived inside of a fish for over three days. And if I say this is not plausible... I'm being deliberately offensive?
Some Christians believe the story actually happened and others believe it is an allegory or didactic fiction. Regardless, the lesson is the same - when we let our own fear or egos keep us from doing what we know is right, we are in a period of darkness. Through meditation and prayer we can gain insight and ascend to our higher natures or "see the light". Jonah was in the fish for three days. Three days is symbolic in the Bible - Paul was blinded for three days on the road to Damascus, Christ didn't ascend to heaven until three days after crucifixion, etc. It's not about whether or not the story is true, it's about the truth one takes from the story.
I'm only speaking to the handful of Christians responding to my comment. But yes, clearly, the Bible is not literally true. Whether you want to call it allegory, fable, myth, a tall tale, greatly embellished historical fiction, or simply fabrication- it's still not true in a literal and objective sense of the word. But that doesn't change the fact that millions if not billions of people through the years have taken it as literal truth, including at least a couple commenting above, and all of those who get into arguments about whether Jonah was living inside a fish or a whale as if it matters.
@Isa Just because something could be taken as offensive that doesn't mean it actually is offensive. Virtually anything will offend somebody. If we're not supposed to state opinions about the Bible then why did you comment?
I'm not really sure exactly why it is that people think @kal's comment is offensive, counterproductive, an example of trolling, causing "trouble" or insulting. I kind of see that if you are a Christian you can see that it is criticising your religion and might feel offended by that, but that doesn't mean it actually is offensive. There weren't any insults in the post. There was a vague hint that believing in the story is embarassing, but that is fair because you wouldn't believe it if it was written in any other book. Believing that the story is a metaphor is a different matter, but as @kal has said lots of people actually do think it is literally true. I would actually say that if it did specify whether it was a whale or a giant fish then it is fine to argue over it in the same way that if someone said that Hagrid from Harry Potter was a giant I would be justified in correcting that to "half-giant". But they didn't know the difference then and which it is depends on the translation.
I haven't seen anyone mention this, but the people who Joseph brought to Egypt and who were led out of Egypt by Moses weren't called Jews. That term originated with the country of Judah hundreds of years later.
When I first did this quiz, I thought the arrow on 'Sold his birthright to ^' meant that the arrow stood for the name of the person / answer. I only just realized it meant the answer above. I was a bit confused by that - it might help if you changed it too 'Sold his birthright to their younger brother' or something. :)
Interesting how many people on this feed so flippantly dismiss the Bible as fairy-tale.
There is no book in the world more scrutinized, and still coming out on top. Why is this? If you think it is historically inaccurate read "The Case for Christ."
Oh, pff. When the Bible is scrutinised, it comes out with thousands of internal contradictions, endless historical inaccuracies - Moses never existed and there was never a mass exodus of Jews from Egypt, for one thing, and where Genesis claims the first humans came from Mesopotamia, evidence suggests humanity originated in Africa - and, most importantly, no evidence whatsoever for the supernatural claims.
The Case for Christ is a pathetic attempt at apologetics and special pleading. It should not be vaunted in the way it is. Also, the reason the Bible is still the world's most popular book is because people accept it uncritically, ignore criticisms, and rely on blind faith to see them through. Just like you.
Really could do with a bit of tidying up this quiz.
-Jesus raised more people than just Lazarus.
-There were two temples built so Ezra/Haggai could be an answer too.
-Joseph didn't bring "the Jews" to Egypt. There were no Jews then because Judah had not yet been born let alone formed a nation. The first Israelites went to Egypt because of a famine and weren't led by Joseph.
-Mary Magdalene was not the only person to discover the empty tomb.
It was a special creature that God arranged to deal with the situation.
Also, I don't think anyone is actually claiming or has ever claimed that the events described in the poetic Book of Job really happened, are they? Everyone's on board with that as an illustrative story?
1. That depends on what you mean by opinion
2. Whatever you mean by opinion, that doesn't refute the point.
or anyone elsewould make me happy by a single link! My day is now better ;)You believe a man lived inside of a fish for over three days. And if I say this is not plausible... I'm being deliberately offensive?
Let that sink in.
I think everyone should watch this video, for its hilarity, and for its disproving of the Bible.
There is no book in the world more scrutinized, and still coming out on top. Why is this? If you think it is historically inaccurate read "The Case for Christ."
The Case for Christ is a pathetic attempt at apologetics and special pleading. It should not be vaunted in the way it is. Also, the reason the Bible is still the world's most popular book is because people accept it uncritically, ignore criticisms, and rely on blind faith to see them through. Just like you.
Which is equally fictional.
*also, it wasnt much of a battle at Jericho, they circled the city walls and trumpeted for 7 days
*is it possible to regulate all arguments in chat?
im Christian but not trying to choose sides
gets 18 out of 18 with time to spare
-Jesus raised more people than just Lazarus.
-There were two temples built so Ezra/Haggai could be an answer too.
-Joseph didn't bring "the Jews" to Egypt. There were no Jews then because Judah had not yet been born let alone formed a nation. The first Israelites went to Egypt because of a famine and weren't led by Joseph.
-Mary Magdalene was not the only person to discover the empty tomb.