No doubt this will be controversial. As Voltaire famously said, the Holy Roman Empire was neither holy, nor Roman, nor an empire. I think that the list of countries is correct, but there may be errors. But please do research before posting. Incorrect or antagonistic posts may be deleted.
since when are posts deleted in Jetpunk? There are lots of discussion about Cyprus Asia/Europe, Palestine/Taiwan/Kosovo/etc,etc... being countries or not... Why would any argument here be different, considering that whatever arises here is history from at least 2 centuries ago
He just means that, as with *any* quiz – be it about politics or the Spice Girls – being nasty, vulgar, insulting, rude, or obnoxious will get your posts deleted. There sometimes needs to be a reminder of that, especially on quizzes that are likely to get people all riled up.
so, of course, some things go without saying (nasty, vulgar, or too insulting and rude), yet it is the first time I see this message. I also doubt this is one of the most controversial quizes in Jetpunk at all
Malta was definitively not. San Marino has been "most likely" a part of the duchy of Spoleto and later of the Papal states. In 1177, the Papal states left the HRE and so did the territory of modern San Marino. ("Most likely" because San Marino is not mentioned in any literature on the HRE, I read so far including P.H. Wilson's epos "The Holy Roman Empire". Shouldn't there be at least a note that the imperial army subdued any duchy except tiny San Marino? It is more plausible that San Marino just did not exist as a sovereign state in those times prior to 1177.)
Finally, the only real contoverse is about Vatican City (or rather the entire city of Rome) - and that since the beginning of the HRE! Accordingly, Vatican City should be removed from this list or at least marked as controverse in order to educate the quizzers about this ancient controverse. ;-)
The land area of San Marino consisted only of Mount Titano until 1463, at which time the republic entered into an alliance against Sigismondo Pandolfo Malatesta, duke of Rimini, who was later defeated. As a result, Pope Pius II gave San Marino some castles and the towns of Fiorentino, Montegiardino and Serravalle.
I have tried to find a definitive answer whether Königsberg, now Kaliningrad, Russia was ever considered part of the HRE. Anyone have a solid response?
Thanks, I know it and many German speaking lands went through various sovereign entities. Many of these were far flung, ever changing, noncontiguous patches.
Malbaby, an ellipsis contains three dots, not five, and you've used it incorrectly. You also ended a sentence with a colon instead of a period, and your 'use' of 'single quotation marks' makes no 'sense'. There. Can I have my 'Golden Nitpickers Award' [sic] now, too?
What was later East Prussia belonged to the State of the Teutonic Order – its German Wikipedia page says that the question of its sovereignty and it being part of HRE is controversial among historians, so actually it would be fine either way. The maps marking the border of HRE were created much much later. But HRE's English page says that The monastic state of the Teutonic Order (German: Deutschordensstaat) and its later German successor state of Prussia were, however, never part of the Holy Roman Empire."
HRE article includes several maps, some include the Teutonic Order State, others don't. The "title" map goes over the Slovakian border, others don't and stop exactly on the modern Czech-Slovak border. So Slovakia should be excluded, unless you find a detailed map showing that some village in today's Slovakia actually belonged to the Czech crown at some point.
This is the first map I ever saw which shows the Teutonic Order as a part of the HRE. As source is given: "own work", instead of a proper source. IMHO, the map is just not based on an accurate evidence. A suspicion further nurtured by the sloppy inclusion of Slovak terroritories, which - except as mentioned the possibility of single villages - were part of the Kingdom of Hungary and therefore definitively not part of the HRE.
Let me add https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Teutonic_Order_1466.png just as an example of a more trustworthy citation of the source.
I was suprised not to find Denmark on that list. Completely forgot, that Schleswig came to Prussia only in 1866. Seems that my schooldays are longer ago, than I thought.
More promising would be some "forgotten" islands, but I have not yet found any. Indeed first Denmark then UK possessed Heligoland but this island came back under German rule in 1890 (and again in 1952).
It would be better to say modern countries whose territory was within the HRE. "Controlled by" could very well be argued to include all of the countries of the gigantic Habsburg empire under Holy Roman Emperor Charles V. Indeed the first country I guessed was Mexico to find out if this was the case or not.
To put it another way, imagine a quiz that asked for all the countries "controlled by" the United States in it's entire existence, but then the only answer was the United States.
Latvia should be included. Quoting from Riga's wikipedia page: "With the demise of the Livonian Order during the Livonian War, Riga for twenty years had the status of a Free Imperial City of the Holy Roman Empire". It was an exclave of the HRE from 1561-1582.
As today Köningsberg is Kaliningrad and thus part of Russia, this country should be included.
Finally, the only real contoverse is about Vatican City (or rather the entire city of Rome) - and that since the beginning of the HRE! Accordingly, Vatican City should be removed from this list or at least marked as controverse in order to educate the quizzers about this ancient controverse. ;-)
The land area of San Marino consisted only of Mount Titano until 1463, at which time the republic entered into an alliance against Sigismondo Pandolfo Malatesta, duke of Rimini, who was later defeated. As a result, Pope Pius II gave San Marino some castles and the towns of Fiorentino, Montegiardino and Serravalle.
So San Marino should be certainly included.
I will say that my new trophy looks great on the mantle beside 'Contractionist of the Year' and 'If It's Broke, Fix It' :)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Holy_Roman_Empire_at_its_territorial_apex_(per_consensus).svg
HRE article includes several maps, some include the Teutonic Order State, others don't. The "title" map goes over the Slovakian border, others don't and stop exactly on the modern Czech-Slovak border. So Slovakia should be excluded, unless you find a detailed map showing that some village in today's Slovakia actually belonged to the Czech crown at some point.
Let me add https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Teutonic_Order_1466.png just as an example of a more trustworthy citation of the source.
To put it another way, imagine a quiz that asked for all the countries "controlled by" the United States in it's entire existence, but then the only answer was the United States.
Friedrich II The Kaiser of The Holy Roman Empire was the King of The ''Kingdom Of Jerusalem'' too.