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Thanks for all the fish

Blog by kalbahamut
First published: Saturday November 14th, 2020
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+6
Hey JetPunkers,

My first and likely last blog post here.

I love this website. I've been coming here very nearly every single day since sometime around late 2012. I came for the countries of the world quiz: trying to refresh my knowledge of geography from 6th grade. I stayed for the many other interesting quizzes and the quiz editor feature. I came back every day multiple times per day for the lively conversations in the comments section on the wide range of topics the many quizzes reflected: always best when there were multiple opinionated people sharing their unique and unfiltered perspectives. The quizzes were the dry, often boring facts. The comments were the color commentary from many different people similarly interested in knowledge from around the world. I know some people dislike reading through that part.... I will always be perpetually perplexed as to why these people even opened the comments section in the first place.

This site provided me with an entertaining time sink from 2012-2014 when I had mandatory office hours to keep in Saudi Arabia and little else to do with that time. It helped me as a distracting diversion to keep my mind occupied when I was struggling with severe depression from 2015-2018 or so. I learned SO much, too! I used to think I had a pretty encyclopedic knowledge of history and geography... but that probably increased threefold just by whittling away time here every day. And re-visiting the site to see what people had to say about this or that has been something I've looked forward to for the past 8 years. 8 years. Damn.

Anyway, it's been real. I've enjoyed interacting with all of you and sparring with a few. Apologies if I caused offense or stress to anyone, that was never my intention. Well, maybe there are two or three exceptions to that- but those users have left or were banned so probably not reading these words. I might pop in from time to time to take a quiz here or there but I'm quitting the comments section cold turkey. Don't want to overstay my welcome and maybe I already have.

Happy trails everyone. Big thanks to Dan for all the work he puts into this site and shoutout to Stewart, reless, Jerry et al. as well. Remember tribalism is the root of all evil. We are all connected by our common humanity. Be more skeptical. Be less cynical. Death to Michael Bay.
1ProximaCentauri
+18
Level 55
Nov 14, 2020
Kalbahamut, you were my favorite user because I always loved How you’d post a controversial comment and start debates. Those were really fun to watch. You are probably the funniest user the site has ever had. Your probably the most famous jetpunker besides QM and Stewart. Have a nice rest of your life :)
1ProximaCentauri
+4
Level 55
Nov 14, 2020
P.S. are you leaving the comments, or the site as a whole?
JWatson24
+5
Level 71
Nov 30, 2020
Agreed. I'd like to add that I didn't always agree with you (although I think I still agreed more than disagreed with you), but your arguments were always well-written and made me think and I really appreciated that. It's too bad that you won't be posting anymore but you'll still always be an integral part of the JetPunk community. I hope you reconsider and come back in the future, but until then good luck!
baptistegorce
+12
Level 54
Nov 15, 2020
Oh... It's a sad day for all the JetPunk community who lost its best commenter.

I hope it's not really finished...

peardestroyer
+3
Level 56
Nov 15, 2020
^^^
BolyaiAnna
+18
Level 82
Nov 15, 2020
News that hit me so hard I do not know what to say. As far as I am concerned, I always looked up to you and you taught me a whole lot. If you ever read this, know that you're not homeless : JetPunk will always be your home. I hope you will get to visit new countries and I am sure that if or when you come back, you'll have plenty of new anecdotes to tell us about! Long live kalbahamut.
Stewart
+24
Level 68
Nov 15, 2020
It's a shame you have decided to move on, however after 8 years I can understand why. Good luck with wherever you go next, and thank you for always ensuring JetPunk comment sections remained interesting and informative. You will always be well known to JetPunkers, and your legacy will be told to new members for decades to come! :)
toowise
+10
Level 78
Nov 15, 2020
I enjoy reading your comments on quizzes, some going back several years, I may not have agreed with your views all the time, but your comments were always well informed. I envy your travels immensely, even though I have travelled extensively myself in the past. Good Luck with whatever you decide to do in the future.

Edited to add....Nice Douglas Adams reference !

MG17
+6
Level 43
Nov 15, 2020
Errr... well... hi, Kal. You must remember me already. For many it was hard and sad, as in the departure of the eternal Malkiboy. But now I understand you. Our discussions of yesteryear no longer serve us. Quarrels and strife for nothing, with so many more things to do. I continue to disagree with many of his controversial comments, but his vision and wit change that section almost vital in JetPunk. You will really be missed in the comments, and as much as you want to squirt me (lol), I will say: May God bless you on this new journey, Kal!
1ProximaCentauri
+3
Level 55
Nov 15, 2020
QM should put one of Kal's quizzes on the front page as a tribute.
peardestroyer
+5
Level 56
Nov 15, 2020
He should put this blog on the front page.
HinesBrothers
+13
Level 75
Nov 15, 2020
IMPORTANT: nobody except kalbahamut is allowed to upvote this comment

Are you still going to make quizzes? Like this comment if yes, since you aren't going to comment yourself

peardestroyer
+2
Level 56
Nov 15, 2020
He liked it! Yay!
1ProximaCentauri
+1
Level 55
Nov 15, 2020
wait no, someone just unliked it
kalbahamut
+13
Level 82
Nov 15, 2020
hey.. I still get notifications when someone comments on a blog or quiz I made so I've read these. I don't know. I may create or edit a quiz at some point in the future but, to be honest, I've barely done that at all the last few years anyway. My most prolific quiz-making days were back when I was working in Saudi Arabia.
1ProximaCentauri
+2
Level 55
Nov 16, 2020
HE COMMENTED!!!!!!!!
1ProximaCentauri
+1
Level 55
Nov 15, 2020
SUPA IMPORTANT: If someone besides Kal liked Hines's comment, CONFESS by replying to this comment. if no one replies we will know Kal liked hines's comment
Baxtergrad
+16
Level 52
Nov 15, 2020
If anyone does like it, they can easily unlike it. If they purposely did it to cause confusion, why would they confess?
Quizmaster
+22
Level ∞
Nov 16, 2020
I just saw this. Thanks for the kind words. Your comments were always insightful, and provided a unique perspective that was your own and didn't simply parrot the popular media.

I'm sorry our moderation policies drove you away. I've spent some time reflecting on this, but I'm not sure there's an easy answer. It's impossible for me to find another site that "does it right". Most large media outlets such as Facebook, Twitter, and Reddit now engage in censorship, and still manage to be toxic. We also censor, as you know, but are generally not as toxic.

There's also the technical challenges of hosting a large comment section, which I can't leave unmoderated because we are an ad-supported site which a lot of schools use as well.

You'll probably disagree with my perspective here, but I just wanted to let you know how I feel about it.

In any case, so long, and thanks for everything you've done for the site. I wish you well.

kalbahamut
+5
Level 82
Dec 23, 2020
I understand how difficult it must be to run and moderate this site while also generating so much fresh content for it at the same time. I've tried to temper any criticisms I've ever directed at the site's moderation with that in mind. But, yes, it was ultimately the way the site is moderated that led to me deciding to withdraw from the comments section. And in my opinion QM has gone from one very bad method of moderation to an even worse one recently. There are many different ways to do it, QM is right. And yes, no perfect way, that's also right. But I feel like there are better ways. And in my own estimation it goes something like this is descending order:

1. manual moderation of comments with clear, specific, near-universally-acceptable standards (i.e. deleting comments that contain SPAM, pornographic imagery, doxxing other members, "bad" words, etc.) Easy to enforce. Little-to-no room for interpretation. Thus little-to-no room for misunderstanding or frustration.

kalbahamut
+5
Level 82
Dec 23, 2020
2. automatic moderation of comments with clear, specific, near-universally-acceptable standards (posts get deleted for containing certain words, or links, or html. There may also be a report feature for posts that slip by the filter but clearly violate rules against SPAM, etc.) Not as good as manual moderation, but still the moderation is not too onerous or overly censorious, little about it is subjective, reasons for post deletion are clear and applies uniformly to everyone.

3. manual moderation of comments based on some arbitrary, but uniform, well-defined, consistent standard. (i.e. no comments about sex, no overt personal attacks, no comments about politics, or religion, or drug use, or criminal activity, etc etc) This can also work fine, though it introduces more censorship. The key is CONSISTENCY and judging all comments on an equal standard. If one comment of a political nature is deleted (and deleted for that reason), ALL comments of a political nature must be deleted.

kalbahamut
+4
Level 82
Dec 23, 2020
4. automatic moderation of comments based on the standard in moderation type 3. This would require an extensive list of blocked words or terms, or some type of fancy algorithm, and is far less than ideal because even with the best intentions of being fair, impartial, and consistent... AI moderation still is not very good and you will end up with comments blocked for no obvious reason and mistakes will be made. In this case, generally speaking, the fewer things being filtered out the better.

5. No moderation, but posting requires registration, achieving a certain user-level, etc, and individual members have a block feature for members they don't wish to see comments from. Not ideal, but far preferable to any of the options below this one. The best option for maximizing free speech while at the same time not having the comments section descend into chaos. (and member registration could still be revoked in cases of extreme abuse i.e. repeatedly posting SPAM, etc)

kalbahamut
+4
Level 82
Dec 23, 2020
6. light-handed opinion-based manual moderation. (i.e. the moderators are tasked with cleaning up the comments section, but it is at their discretion. So.. "I don't like this comment, it gets deleted... this comment seems okay to me, it can stay." Introduces an element which will almost invariably strike some as arbitrary, capricious, confusing, and unfair. Any moderation based on moderator's mood or opinion is going to be like this, regardless of the quality of the moderator (and, generally speaking, moderators on virtually all sites are horrible, prone to abusing their power, getting tired, being biased, etc like all humans, so usually that's not good anyway) This is a sure-fire way to lead to those participating in the comments section becoming frustrated and annoyed, as any opinion-based moderation can be second-guessed, and there will always be differences of opinion about what comments are okay or not okay if not clearly, concretely, objectively defined.
kalbahamut
+4
Level 82
Dec 23, 2020
7. Locked comments section for certain areas. For any section of the site that contains controversial subject matter, comments for that particular section are locked completely either after a certain date or altogether. Other sections of the site are still moderated using one of the above methods. This has the advantage of substantially reducing emotionally charged arguments in the comments section, but periodically introduces the disadvantage of type 8 below.

8. No comments section. The easiest method. Advantage: impossible for anyone to feel offended by the site's comment section or moderation. Disadvantage: the site becomes lifeless, boring, antiseptic, loses any sense or feeling of community and loses a great degree of any sense of member participation or involvement in the site.

kalbahamut
+4
Level 82
Dec 23, 2020
9. Aggressive opinion-based manual moderation. Like type 7, but more aggressive, thus introducing even more arbitrary decisions about which comments are okay or not okay. You will piss off a lot of commenters when their comments get deleted, for arbitrary, unknown, or undiscernible reasons. And the more it is done the greater chance there is for these deletions to be seen as being, or in many cases objectively being, unfair and inconsistent. Which is just about the worst thing a comments section can be. It takes a positive (sharing opinions and points of view, inviting conversation between members), and turns it into a negative (guaranteed recipe for pissing people off, as they are invited to participate in a conversation and then rudely and arbitrarily silenced without obvious cause or chance for due recourse.)

10. no moderation at all, no registration required. The ultimate in free speech facilitation. But also likely to be completely overrun by SPAMbots eventually.

kalbahamut
+5
Level 82
Dec 23, 2020
It seems to me like QM chose to go from moderation type 6, which in my opinion is only slightly better than having no comments section at all, to moderation type 9, which is barely a step above SPAMbot hellscape. I know he's got his own reasons and own opinions on this. But in my subjective honest humble opinion, they are the wrong ones. I could speak for many pages about why, but, out of a combination of respect for Dan and the work he puts into this site, and a lack of interest/energy on my own part in delving into it all in detail, I'm not going to. I'll just say I'm happy I decided to duck out when I did because the new caveat stickied at the top of all political quizzes now really galls me, for several different reasons, which I could go into at length but won't, and if I was still commenting on those quizzes I'm pretty sure I'd become a much bigger thorn in Dan's side than I ever was before and probably have gotten myself banned by now.
kalbahamut
+5
Level 82
Dec 23, 2020
Types 1-5 above, the best options in my opinion, all have their own downsides. But they all also have the most important upside in that they are consistent and everyone understands what is being moderated and why.
stylus
+4
Level 76
Nov 16, 2020
a true role model in many ways. you will be missed
mikael1
+4
Level 55
Nov 17, 2020
You will be missed.
TheRealGrantma
+2
Level 56
Nov 21, 2020
Good luck out there.
TheRealGrantma
+3
Level 56
Nov 21, 2020
So long, and thanks for all the fish.

The best book ever created.

Xabi
+10
Level 53
Nov 25, 2020
Well this was interesting to read. I also got my start on this website through a countries of the world quiz. It was a recommendation on Facebook circa 2014, and I've been on here constantly ever since. Although I extremely rarely comment on quizzes, when I do look at the comments of any quiz from the front page it always seemed like I saw your name. I feel like if you asked people on this site to name one user, yours would pop up first because its such a unique and hard-to-forget name and also by the frequency by which you commented. Even though you're not leaving the site entirely, you can rest assured that you have had an impact on tens of thousands of people. That must feel great. Thanks for all the time you spent engaging with others on this website. I think I can speak on behalf of everyone who's read this post that you will indeed be missed.
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