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The Kalbahamut Quiz

See how many things you know about kalbahamut but probably wish you didn't.
Quiz by kalbahamut
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First submittedDecember 6, 2017
Last updatedNovember 4, 2018
Times taken283
Rating3.00
8:00
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Family and Geography
Country he was born in
The United States
City whose suburbs he grew up in
Washington, DC
U.S. states he has lived in
Virginia
California
Countries he's lived in

(in excess of 2 months)
South Korea
Saudi Arabia
Bahrain
Israel
Turkey
Romania
Greece
Ukraine
Russia
The Philippines
Thailand
His ancestors include these indigenous people
Cherokee
Other ancestors include the Winslows, who emigrated on this famous ship
the Mayflower
Uncle who lives in Florida
Butch
 
 
Work and Play
His alma mater
George Mason University
His primary vocation
Education
Type of business he worked at during college
Hospital ER
High IQ society he qualified for
Mensa International
His favorite band
Nine Inch Nails
Artist he's seen in concert the 2nd most
"Weird Al" Yankovic
His favorite classical composer
Ludwig van Beethoven
Game for which he was internationally ranked
Magic: The Gathering
Stat he led his community basketball league in
blocked shots
His favorite 80s cartoon
The Transformers
Director he wishes death upon
Michael Bay
 
 
His Travels
# of countries visited (as of Dec 2017)
61
His first trip overseas was here
Paris, France
Only countries in Africa he has been to
Egypt, Tunisia, or Ethiopia
Holiest Sites Visited
Al Aqsa, Western Wall, and Temple Mount
Masjid AlHaram (Kabaa)
Church of the Holy Sepulchre
St Peter's Basilica
The Golden Temple, Varanasi
 
 
Beliefs and Values
Number of gods he believes in
Zero
Only president he ever voted for
Barack Obama
Contemporary moral philosopher he usually agrees with
Sam Harris
His political beliefs are best described as
Rational, skeptical, or realistic
His religious beliefs are best described as
Rational, skeptical, or realistic
His philosophical beliefs are best described as
Rational, skeptical, or realistic
 
 
The Comments Section
Top reasons he comments on quizzes
To show appreciation to the quiz maker
To instigate interesting conversation
To call out bigots for offensive or ignorant comments they have posted
To share a point of view, offer some insight, answer a question, tell an amusing anecdote, or just make people laugh or think
Top reasons he has never commented
To brag about his intellect or performance
Out of vanity, etc
To unfairly attack any group of people
First JetPunk user he feuded with
OzChris
 
 
His Love Life
He doesn't believe in this institution
Marriage
He also hopes to never have any of these
Children
His first love
Jenni (will also accept Daisy Duke)
Polish girl who broke his heart in 2004
Małgorzata
Royal family he once deflowered a member of
AlSaud
Adult film star he once dated
Alexis Love
 
 
Contradictory Stereotypes
His shoe size
17 (US), 50 (EU)
Type of car he owned for 13 years
1999 Dodge Viper RT/10
Country where the above was stolen by police
Serbia
 
 
His Quizzes
His most popular featured quiz
Digits of Pi
2nd most popular
Presidential First Names
His most popular never-featured quiz
Most Visited Cities in the USA
2nd most popular
The "Are You Too Dumb to Live?" Quiz
+4
level 76
Dec 6, 2017
Runners-up for holiest sites visited:

1. Church of the Nativity, Bethlehem
2. Mevlana Mausoleum, Konya
3. Hagia Sofia, Istanbul
4. Church of All Nations, Gethsemane
5. Mount of Olives, Jerusalem
6. the Parthenon, Athens
7. the Pantheon, Rome
8. Temple of Karnak, Luxor
9. Notre Dame, Paris
10. the original Starbucks, Pikes Place, Seattle
+1
level 76
Dec 6, 2017
oh and the Bahai Gardens of Haifa
+1
level 76
Dec 6, 2017
Bonus question: can anyone name the 3 literary, mythological, and pop-culture references contained in the name kalbahamut?
+1
level 76
Dec 6, 2017
I like this question so much I'm tempted to put it on the quiz... but... it's a little obscure and I don't think I've ever mentioned it in any of my quizzes or comments on the site. Everything else above I know I've mentioned at least once somewhere.... so theoretically anyone with perfect recall who spends a lot of time here could get everything.
+1
level 76
Dec 22, 2017
... though... apparently nobody can answer it
+1
level 41
Feb 8, 2018
Well obviously there's Bahamut. Don't know any others though.
+1
level 76
Feb 8, 2018
Most people wouldn't know what Bahamut was a reference to, though.
+1
level 41
Feb 27, 2018
Well I was assuming it was the mythical fish/whale from Arabic mythology. Now I'm thinking it could be the dragon from Final Fantasy.
+1
level 58
Apr 7, 2018
?? - Al Baha - Bahamut. Not nearly surely that's right though.
+1
level 76
Apr 8, 2018
This username goes back to when I was 14 and on AOL for the first time.
Bahamut is indeed a creature of Arabic mythology similar to the Biblical Leviathan, described as a giant fish or sea monster. He's also a character that features in many different works of fantasy fiction including prominently in the Final Fantasy series of video games which I was obsessed with as a youth. In those he appears as a wise king of dragons, usually, or sometimes just as a powerful dragon creature you can summon to do big damage in a fight.

"Bahamut" was taken on AOL so I added the prefix "Kal-" which is from the Belgariad series of fantasy novels by David Eddings. In some made-up language in the book it's an honorific meaning king or lord. And "Kal" sounds kind of Arabic, so I thought it fit.

So, in short, "king Bahamut," a reference to Arabic mythology, Japanese video game pop culture, and literature by David Eddings.
+1
level 58
Oct 30, 2018
I thought it might've had a canine meaing, because in Syriac, ܟܲܠܒܵܐ "kalba" means dog.
+3
level 60
Dec 7, 2017
Oh My Goodness! You made another quiz! And It's a good one! Today is a good day!
+1
level 76
Dec 7, 2017
Haha... really? This?
Tempted to think that this comment is sarcasm. But if not, thanks, it's nice to have fans.
+2
level 60
Dec 9, 2017
Nope, not Sarcasm. (This comment isn't sarcast either)
+1
level 51
Dec 8, 2017
Well, Kal, I'd read your response but you deleted my comment. Nevertheless, I do want to offer that maybe we shouldn't get up in arms every time we happen across each other. (I know I'm as guilty as you are in that regard.) Maybe we can try to take one another seriously.
+1
level 76
Dec 8, 2017
I didn't delete the comment and have no clue why it was deleted.
+2
level 76
Dec 8, 2017
I'm actually a bit annoyed by that. I think QM has someone moderate the comments on the site and sometimes it seems he deletes comments for completely arbitrary reasons... there was nothing offensive about what you said to me or what I said back and I had written a lengthy reply.
+1
level 51
Dec 8, 2017
Sorry for accusing you. I do agree, it seems a bit odd. I did see a bit of it and I understand you'd prefer not to talk.
+1
level 76
Dec 8, 2017
Are you sure you didn't delete the comment by accident? I don't have the power to delete anyone's comments except my own, but if I leave a comment, and someone replies to it, then if I delete my comment the reply is also deleted.
+1
level 51
Dec 8, 2017
If I was invincible this is somewhat the kind of life I'd leave. Travelling the world, performing...activities with members of the royal family...and eventually just settling down to the internet.
+1
level 76
Dec 8, 2017
If you were invincible? Does that mean you choose not to out of fear?
+1
level 51
Dec 8, 2017
No, just saying: some of the things you've done incur quite a bit of danger.
+3
level 76
Dec 8, 2017
then........... haha... isn't what I said correct? You said you *would* do those things... except you're not invincible and they are dangerous... so.... that means you are afraid of harm that could come to you if you did them yourself. ... right?


Anyway. I hear this a lot. People tell me "oh you're so brave!" I don't really feel it's bravery. Because these things don't frighten me. For me, the routine that the average person finds security and comfort in is what causes me the most anxiety. We're all going to die sooner or later. I'm less afraid of that than I am of wasting my life or missing opportunities. The only things I regret are maybe moving in with my psychotic ex from Bucharest... or maybe trying to cross the border into Kosovo coming from Serbia, or going to Serbia at all for that matter. But I wish I could live without regret and when I'm at my best I am.
+3
level 74
Dec 10, 2017
I can empathize -- Polish girls do tend to break hearts.
+1
level 76
Feb 27, 2018
I'm surprised so few people have guessed the 80s cartoon. It was pretty huge in its day and still is today. 15% more got the director I hate and that clue is very much tied in. And I made a featured quiz on the subject.
+1
level 76
Apr 7, 2018
I'm sort of pleased that almost nobody has guessed my 2nd most popular featured quiz- considering how easy that would be to look up it leads me to believe nobody is cheating.
+1
level 28
Mar 1, 2018
Crushed it with a stellar 1/64
+1
level 76
Mar 8, 2018
Ignorance is bliss? I'm sure there are many people on the site who wish they knew less about me.
+1
level 57
Jan 10, 2019
well even if this is the first quiz you have ever taken, some questions just are easy to guess. like number of gods 1 and 0 are the most likely statistically. And love life, what does he not want to have, only one answers possible right, ow wait I guess std's would fit aswell..Regardless who the quiz was about I would have gotten the same answers I got right as I do now 14 but got ER by accident, forgot what I was trying to type
+1
level 76
Jan 13, 2019
Yes and that's by design. I suppose Timbenz was not really trying.
+1
level 62
Mar 8, 2018
6/64 Definitely can say I don't stalk people :P
+2
level 71
Apr 6, 2018
This quiz should be eligible for points. And perhaps prizes.
+1
level 76
Apr 6, 2018
Nah.. I've got lots of quizzes that would be great on the front page but not really this one.

but thanks. ;-)
+1
level 58
Apr 6, 2018
Got 28 because why shouldn't I use memory space on a random guy on the internet? But very interesting quiz, and even more of a interesting life - I'm taking notes.
+2
level 76
Apr 7, 2018
Wow. That's pretty respectable. Not including myself there have only been 3 people who scored better than 29 and the high score thus far is 40.
+1
level 72
Jun 12, 2018
Although I haven't always been a fan of yours (for reasons we have debated a few times in other comment sections), I've been wanting to know more about you for quite a while. Happy to stumble upon this (otherwise pointless) quiz today. And I'm quite impressed with your shoe size! I'm a size 15 US and people are amazed... I'm guessing you're quite tall? Also, you talked about maybe starting a blog someday (or people wanting you to start one), in some other comments section. I'd be curious to read that.
+1
level 76
Jun 12, 2018
I'm about 6'7" (1.98 meters). Still don't have a blog.
+3
level 66
Jun 23, 2018
Can we get a list of ALL the Jetpunk users you've feuded with, or would that be too long?
+2
level 76
Jun 23, 2018
I don't know. Sometimes I come across somebody in the comments section who obviously has some personal vendetta against me and I can't recall ever having seen their name before. But I'm sure Oz was the first- that was shortly after I joined the site. Now, 6 years later, my comments are all over and people coming here see that I disagree with them on some issue of politics or religion and then can't ever get over it.
+1
level 76
Jun 23, 2018
As far as I can recall, Oz didn't like me because I was American and I noticed his bigotries. Malbaby doesn't like me for much the same reasons. Yankee doesn't like me because he thinks I'm biased against the USA. Gandalf doesn't like me because he thinks I'm not biased enough against the USA. Frost and diva hate me for being too liberal. Tshalla hates me for not being liberal enough. Aesthus and a bunch of other people hate me for not believing in the same god that they do. Slug claims to be atheist but hate me for talking about god at all; though he's also a troll. Dozens of people whose names I can't recall hate me because they think I'm posting just to try and impress them. Dozens more post long, whiny comments every chance they get about how much they hate those who post long, whiny comments or who post too often, including myself.
+1
level 15
Aug 3, 2018
Wait, Slug is an atheist??!?!! Where did he say that!? I always thought he was a Christian based on the way he always speaks to you Kal.
+1
level 76
Aug 4, 2018
He claimed he was an atheist once. I think he's just a troll so I don't really care what he is.
+1
level 76
Aug 7, 2018
S3AM, slugcharger, slugarmy, and perhaps other accounts associated with this troll are controlled by the same person or persons. Today I saw a comment it left a few months back admitting to being controlled by a group of trolls whose purpose is to continuously reload quizzes, leave stupid comments, and provoke arguments. I don't recall where, but one of the trolls piloting one of these accounts *did* claim that they are a non-believer at one point, but you're right, S3AM (slug), that this makes no sense, and that obviously he was lying. But that's kind of what trolls do.
He might have been lying just because he's a troll and all he ever posts is BS. Or.. he might have been attempting to enhance his own credibility, which is something people sometimes do. For example someone who hates Jews because they were raised Muslim might deny being Muslim so that it seems like they're being objective. In the same way there are many on this site who hate me for not believing in their god.
+1
level 76
Aug 7, 2018
I've done and said nothing to warrant their hatred of me other than making factual statements that they find objectionable, but so fragile are their egos and so flimsy are their beliefs that they feel deeply threatened by a person who speaks honestly. They then develop vendettas against me posting wherever they can to try and provoke or insult me. It's pretty damn pathetic, but it happens. And when it happens, those people are going to want to try and pretend like they have some objective reason for insulting or provoking me. They'll act like they're just trying to keep the peace. Or they'll try to appear unbiased by claiming to not believe in the things that they believe. This is all a ruse to try and mask the fact that they are just mad at me about something I said months or years ago that offended their belief in fairy tales. Also pathetic. But this also happens. I'd say get over it and grow up but slugs are as slugs do.
+1
level 15
Aug 13, 2018
Um...That wasn't me who said that Kal, I promise you that. I admit to being slugcharger yes, I have many times before, but not slugarmy or any others. Do you by any chance remember the user's name who said he was all these different people controlled by one person? Because I promise it was not me. I do recall seeing a comment somwhere that I believe was left by "slugarmy", claiming he was 1, single account controlled by multiple people, maybe that was it? (I wanna say it was on a Bible quotes quiz, but not 100% sure.) Whatever the case, though, I assure you, Kal, I am no more than slugcharger and S3AM, and I am not out to attack you.
+1
level 76
Aug 13, 2018
If you say so. I didn't know slugs were so popular; seemed odd that there would be multiples. and I don't recall the exact wording of the comment I am referencing I think that it did not explicitly claim that any of these people were atheists but that they "agreed with me" (while in the middle of attacking me) and this was during a dispute on a religious quiz.
it's... whatever... kinda sad that people get so offended that someone doesn't share their superstitions that they will hold a grudge for years. And I'm sure this accounts for a very large percentage of the nasty comments directed at me on the site. The people I disagree with on politics or history or something else can be rude, too, but they don't usually carry this over from quiz to quiz. I'm personally looking forward to QM implementing a "block" feature. If people are going to be so irreparably damaged by being confronted with reality, then, fine, I'm happy with them not being able to see me describe it.
+1
level 76
Jun 23, 2018
oh and Helen hates me because I made a quiz about boobies.
+1
level 66
Jun 25, 2018
Wow. Knew about Gandalf, Tshalla, and Aesthus, but didn't realize there were that many others. When did you have a fight with Malbaby?
+1
level 76
Jun 25, 2018
I don't remember now when it started but she rarely misses an opportunity to say something nasty about me.
+1
level 66
Jun 26, 2018
I didn't realize that. Most of the comments I see from her are self advertising for quizzes.
+1
level 76
Jun 26, 2018
She does some of that, too. Including on my quizzes which I find a little ironic. :D
+1
level 76
Jun 27, 2018
One of the religious quizzes today reminded me of a few more people who hate me.. ctleng.. FiddleyDiddleyDoo.. several others who are offended by the existence of atheists.
+1
level 79
Jul 12, 2018
A fun quiz about something I know nothing about! Some were obvious from the question (Mayflower, Mensa), some led immediately to others (DC to Virginia), I guessed Serbia as a place you might have lived and instead I found your car, and shoe size I just stepped through. I have been to all but one of the holy places (and supplemental ones) you've been to (and can add the Sikh Golden Temple and Disneyland). But I've never had the nerve to invest in the stateside studying and schmoozing I would need to do ahead of time to get past the guardhouses at the perimeter of Mecca. But from another answer I see you've taken the Saudi experience considerably further than that :)
+1
level 76
Jul 12, 2018
I did no schmoozing in the US I just went and said the shahada at the Islamic Center on Imam Saud St in Riyadh and got a laminate that says I'm Muslim. Helped me get into many no-go areas for non-Muslims; some listed here and some not.
+1
level 79
Jul 12, 2018
That's all it took? I thought I'd have to get someone to vouch for me from some US mosque (I don't speak Arabic, but I can certainly recite the Shahada in Arabic). I thought they might quiz me a bit at the gate. Ah well, I'm glad I found the quiz. If a 7-foot-tall Saudi prince emerges in the near future, I'll know the source!
+1
level 76
Jul 12, 2018
Conversion to Islam is very easy and they are extremely happy to have "white" Western converts accept their religion. I think it helps validate their beliefs when that happens. I was in the newspaper and they wanted to interview me on Saudi 1 it was all a bit much honestly. They never do that when some Filipino or Indian working in the country converts.
The road to Mecca has many military/police checkpoints on the way. They will question you and ask to see ID at each. IDs issued in Saudi Arabia display your religion so that's what they're looking for. In my case since my ID just said "other" I showed them the laminate I got from the Islamic Center. I got several funny looks, and one guard looked at me wryly and said, "you are Muslim? Really?" but then got waved through. I felt a bit paranoid the whole time I was there but it helps that there are pilgrims from all over the world of every shade and color coming to circumabulate the kabaa.
+1
level 76
Jul 12, 2018
Getting in to the Dome of the Rock and Al Aqsa Mosque was a little trickier. Israel actually allows Jordanians to police that area and control access to the Temple Mount and the holy sites upon it. The normal test that they give to people trying to get in is to ask them to recite Sūrat al-Fātiḥah.
I tried to memorize it but eventually gave up. When I went I just showed the guards my laminate and told them I was a recent convert still struggling to learn the prayers and some Arabic, the "aw shucks, I'm just a stupid 'Murican" card. That worked. But they wouldn't allow my mother in with me, she had to wait outside even though I had her dressed in hijab.
The other places I mentioned took a little bit more work and charm to get in to but don't feel like going in to detail here.
+1
level 79
Jul 13, 2018
I had an easier time at the Dome of the Rock and Al Aqsa, since I went there long ago, before even the first intifada. There was only a cursory ID check at the entrance of the Temple Mount, and I was given a very friendly tour of each mosque. At the time, there wasn't even a marked border between Israel and the West Bank. As for Mecca, I wondered if it would be safer to try during the hajj, since the locals would have their hands full and I would be a lot less conspicuous. But it might be a bit much...
+1
level 79
Jul 13, 2018
PS Among holy places, you didn't mention the Salt Lake Temple / Tabernacle. While you can't get into the Temple building itself, surely visiting Temple Square and the Tabernacle counts. I like holding that over the young "Elders" I encounter in foreign countries who try to convert me :)
+1
level 76
Jul 13, 2018
I've been to Salt Lake City but that was when my dad and I were driving to California and we were moving so fast we didn't even stop. My memory wasn't clear so I just checked to make sure and I don't think the temple is even visible from Interstate 80 so I probably didn't even see it. Missed opportunity. On the way back a couple years later my cousin and I took a much more leisurely pace and stopped at many places along the way, but we took I-40 the majority of the way further south.
+1
level 79
Jul 12, 2018
PS Thanks for accepting "Bob" for "Butch" (a shot in the dark for me). And you should accept either "atheism" or "agnosticism" for your approach to religion, for consistency. Hey, I take these quizzes seriously! Also (not on the quiz) I misguessed that the "Kal" part of your username was taken from Superman's original name.
+1
level 76
Jul 12, 2018
His real name is Robert. But Uncle Bob is the first name I'd guess for a random uncle name, too.
+2
level 76
Jul 16, 2018
and as far as the "atheism" thing... I don't like this descriptor. Not that I won't admit to being an atheist, but it shouldn't be necessary to label yourself as an atheist any more than it should be necessary to label yourself as someone who doesn't believe in Thor or Wotan, or someone who is not into astrology, or someone who doesn't believe the Earth is flat.
Also, atheism is not a worldview. It's not an approach to politics or reason or philosophy or life. It's a position on a single question, which I arrived at via rational skepticism. I believe in things for which there is good evidence. This belief and approach to knowledge informs all of my other beliefs. But *not* believing in a god doesn't inform my world view any more than my not collecting stamps influences my leisure time. I wouldn't list under hobbies "non stamp collector"
+1
level 66
Aug 16, 2018
Definition of atheism from Merriam-Webster: a philosophical or religious position characterized by disbelief in the existence of a god or any gods. This sounds like a religion to me, and it says it is a religious or philosophical view, so your description of it not being this is wrong. As for atheism being the only view for which there is good evidence, this is a completely ignorant comment. As a rational person myself, I believe in God because I feel there is more evidence to support it. However, I am not telling you that this is the only view that makes sense. Saying that atheism is the only view a reasoned person would have is just as bad as a Christian or Muslim calling you out for not believing in a God.
+1
level 66
Aug 16, 2018
And comparing religion to believing the Earth is flat or astrology is a terrible analogy because there is scientific evidence to support the Bible (or the Quran) and, however much you may want to believe it, the ~6.5 billion people who are believe in God(s) are not all brainwashed idiots who don't think for themselves. Although I like you, Kal, some of your comments are more ignorant than the ones you are responding to.
+2
level 76
Aug 16, 2018
Did you bother looking up the definition of religion?

"the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods."

Please explain how atheism fits that definition.

There is no evidence for any god. There is exactly as much evidence for astrology as there is for the Christian god. None. Prove me wrong. Go ahead.
+2
level 76
Aug 16, 2018
To clarify, in the interest of civility, a position or belief can be "religious" (relating to a religion)- without being a religion itself. There is no common definition of religion that applies to atheism at all. I think that, at some level, religious people understand that in spite of what they claim, believing in something without evidence and refusing to accept that you could be wrong (faith, religion) is a bad thing- and this is why they try to say atheism is a religion (when it's clearly not), and that accepting science requires faith (when it clearly doesn't). Aren't faith and religion, according to religious people, supposed to be good things? Then why are you using them as insults?

Anyway, I've been where you were. I used to think I had good reasons for believing in the Christian god. I realized I was wrong. We can talk about it but beginning the conversation with "you're ignorant" probably isn't the best starting point.
+1
level 66
Aug 16, 2018
True, there is no proof that there is a God. I never claimed that there was. There is also no proof that there is not a God. The proof (for me, at least) lies in the Bible. There is archaeological evidence supporting that events in the Bible really did happen. The one story everybody goes back to is the great flood, but excluding that, name one major event in the Bible that we haven't found proof of. As for Atheism being a religion, the secondary definition of religion is "a particular system of faith and worship." This seems to fit atheism. Even science has a certain amount of faith that comes with it. If you believe the Big Bang happened (which I assume you, along with everyone who trusts scientific evidence, do) you must consider where the two particles the Universe began with came from. I explain this with God, but since you don't, you must have some sort of faith that the particles either existed forever or spontaneously appeared, which goes against the laws of physics.
+2
level 76
Aug 16, 2018
The burden of proof doesn't lie with atheists to prove there is no god. You don't feel the need to prove that there is no Wotan, do you?
There are some people, places, and events in the Bible that can be supported with archaeological evidence. Nobody has ever claimed otherwise. But there is more we know is not true. The great flood is a good example of something we know, for a fact, unequivocally, is not true. But we also know, for a fact, that the story of the garden of eden in Genesis is not true. There is zero evidence for the story of Moses in Exodus, or that Jews were ever enslaved in Egypt, or that Egypt was hit by plagues as described in the Bible, or that an enormous number of Hebrews were wandering around the Sinai or Negev for 40 years. Israelis have looked. They've found nothing. We know that the several contradictory stories of the Nativity as described in the Gospels are not true. They are inconsistent and do not match the historical record.
+2
level 76
Aug 16, 2018
We know that parts of the story of the resurrection are not true- for example the parts that claim that at the time of this event there was a great earthquake, the sun was blotted out, and many zombies rose from the dead and were roaming around Jerusalem. You would expect that these events would have been written down by someone, but they were not. These are just a few examples.

Atheism is not a system of faith or worship. No, science absolutely does NOT rely on faith. It is the opposite of faith. We have very strong evidence for the big bang. We can see that the Universe is expanding. We can calculate that if we reversed all of this expansion it would go back to a single point. We can observe the cosmic background radiation left over from the big bang. We can calculate that the total sum energy of the universe is zero. All of this is consistent with the theory of the big bang.
+2
level 76
Aug 16, 2018
You are committing a logical fallacy saying that in order for this to be true we have to also explain something else that's not related. We don't. Where is the evidence that god created the universe? From whence did god come? Does god obey the laws of physics? If you're going to use physics to disprove the big bang, then why does that disproof stop when you get to god?

We have lots of evidence for the big bang. Right now, it's the best model we have for what happened in the Universe approximately 13.8 billion years ago. This theory has predictive power. This is important. Using our understanding of the big bang we can make predictions about things in the universe that we should be able to observe. We then go and look for those things, and if we find them, this is confirmation that the theory is true. The big bang theory has been born out by many different independent observations. The god theory has no predictive power. It tells us nothing about the universe.
+2
level 76
Aug 16, 2018
And as to what happened before the big bang? That's a separate question. It doesn't affect whether or not the big bang is true. Further, even if we never understand exactly what happened before the big bang (and maybe this is unknowable, or maybe this question is fallacious since there might have been nothing before it), and even if at some later date there comes along a model for explaining the distant origins of the universe that is better than the big bang theory and the existing model is replaced.... that still doesn't prove god. God is not the default hypothesis. You can't just say "this scientific theory is false, therefore god." You can do that with anything. Allah. Vishnu. Thor. And each of these claims would be equally specious. What is your evidence for god? What reason do you have for believing in a god that cannot be used as a reason for believing in something else that you consider false?
+2
level 76
Aug 16, 2018
If your argument for believing in god is that you think the Bible is true... why are Muslims wrong? They can point to events in the Qu'ran that actually happened or that are supported by archaeological evidence. Does that mean that the Qu'ran and hadith are true? Because there was probably a man named Muhammad who conquered Mecca with an army he raised in Medina.... does that also mean that he flew to Jerusalem one night on a winged man-faced horse named Barak?

Science isn't about faith at all. It's about accepting where the evidence leads and when you are wrong or don't know, admitting that you are wrong or that you don't know. It's about testable hypotheses. It's about independently reviewed and confirmed sets of data. It's about experiments and tests that lead to a more and more refined understanding of natural phenomena which we explain through scientific theories.
And you just ignored the part of the definition that mentions worship. What do scientists worship?
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level 66
Aug 16, 2018
Your huge rant about why the Big Bang is true is useless. I never said the Big Bang was false. I asked where the particles came from. I believe that God created them, and I believe that to be the most logical explanation. As for why I believe the Bible, several of the reasons are things such as this. The chance of this happening by accident is so slim I am willing to believe that it is true. Also where is the proof of evolution? There are huge gaps in the fossil record, where there should be millions of "in between" species. But there aren't. Where did they all go?
+2
level 66
Aug 16, 2018
You assume that just because I am a Christian I don't believe in science, which is one of the major flaws in your logic.
+1
level 76
Aug 16, 2018
Also, one more point: atheism and science are not synonyms. You started out claiming that atheism is a religion, then you go on to claim that belief in science requires faith.

Both claims are false... but they also are not related.

Atheism is a position on a single question: "do you believe that there is a god?" If you answer no to this question, you are an atheist. It doesn't require faith. Or worship. There is no unifying worldview associated with it. It requires no devotion. There are no atheist churches (well... there are a couple... but they're silly, and the majority of atheists believe them to be silly and do not attend). There is no atheist god. There is no atheist supreme being. There are no rituals or customs associated with atheism. There are no other beliefs that atheists are required to subscribe to.

Believing in science doesn't necessarily mean you are an atheist. Francis Collins and Isaac Newton believe(d) in a god.
+1
level 76
Aug 16, 2018
The flaw was in your "logic" not mine. See above comment.

I'm not ranting about anything. I tried to be civil. But I'm not here to be insulted. If this is how the conversation is going to be, then, goodbye.
+1
level 76
Aug 16, 2018
The lie that there are no transitional fossils is... a lie. There are many. Evolution is an established scientific fact.

Talk Origins

One among many related pages:
transitional vertebrate fossils
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level 66
Aug 16, 2018
I suppose I see your point with the "answer to one question" thing. However, I am by no means saying that because I am a Christian Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, or you for that matter are 100% wrong. I think that God is the most plausible cause for the creation of the universe, and I am sure that if I lived in Saudi Arabia and thought through this, I would decide to be a Muslim. GOD is what I think exists, not that necessarily the Christian God. Maybe logic was not the best word to use; I was merely pointing out that you are trying to convince me of something that I already believe. In response to your last comment: I will say that evolution is entirely possible.
+1
level 66
Aug 16, 2018
I have been on the fence about evolution for a while now. There are several verses in the Bible that suggest that evolution may be true, and there is lots of evidence for it. That evolution comment was more antagonistic than anything. Sorry.
+1
level 76
Aug 16, 2018
I'm just trying to respond to your comments.
1. you said that atheism is a religion
2. I said that according to the definition of religion, it's the opposite
3. you pulled up a definition of religion that excludes god, but requires faith and worship. You then tried to assert that belief in science requires faith.
4. I tried to explain that:
- belief in scientific theories supported by evidence requires no faith.
- not knowing one thing does not negate the truth of some other scientific theory for which there is ample evidence.
- nor does not knowing a thing prove the existence of a god. This is the god of the gaps argument.
- nor does admitting one doesn't know something require faith.
- nor is any of this relevant to whether or not atheism is a religion, because atheism and science are not the same thing, which you seem to be an example of yourself.
5. I detailed the evidence for the big bang to help illustrate the above points.
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level 66
Aug 16, 2018
I agree with almost all of these points. However, believing in something for which there is not ample evidence does require some bit of faith. Atheists believe that the Big Bang happened, but they do not know why or what caused it. You believe that the creation of the universe and life happened by random chance, which requires just as much faith as believing it didn't. Or do you think that what you say is 100% right and no one can argue with it ever?
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level 76
Aug 16, 2018
Maybe try reading my "rant" again. Belief in the big bang doesn't require any faith at all because there is ample evidence for the big bang. It doesn't matter if we know what happened before it. We know (with a high degree of certainty, because this is where the evidence points) that it did happen. Not knowing what preceded (your use of the word "caused" is begging the question) the big bang (there are theories, but we don't know for sure, and this may be a fallacious question as the answer could just as well be nothing) does not cast doubt on the big bang any more than not knowing what caused god casts doubt on the existence of god.

The random chance thing is a strawman. I don't believe that anything happens by random chance. I believe in a deterministic universe that follows that laws of nature. Nothing is random chance. And I have good reasons and good evidence for believing this. It is not a faith-based belief. If I was proven wrong, I would change my belief.
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level 76
Aug 16, 2018
"Or do you think that what you say is 100% right and no one can argue with it ever?"

Absolutely not. Nothing I believe is inarguable. Provide evidence for why I am wrong and I will change my beliefs. I've actually done this before. Even when the belief I had was central to my identity and extremely important to me. Even when that belief was something that I believed gave purpose to my life and something that I built my life around. Even when I had invested my ego in to defending that belief and trying to convince others of that belief over and over again. When I came to understand the evidence against this belief and understand that my position was, in fact, the weaker one, I was forced to admit that I was wrong and change my beliefs.

This is exactly what happened when I gave up my Christian faith, along with my beliefs in young Earth Creationism, my beliefs about morality, and quite a few other things around the same time. I was thinking of being a monk when I was 14.
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level 66
Aug 16, 2018
So off of the topic of whether Atheism is a religion or not, what was it that made you believe that God doesn't exist? It seems to me that there is ample evidence supporting either side.
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level 76
Aug 16, 2018
This is a long discussion and I can't really do it justice here in the comments section, so I hope you appreciate that this is the extremely abridged version of what happened and don't interpret that as being dismissive. But, in short, just what I said. It wasn't any one thing. It was learning about the history of human civilization and religions, learning more about science, coming to understand that the things creationists had told me about evolution etc were false, coming to have a better understanding of cosmology, and psychology, and biology, combined with a lot of different experiences- but mostly it was just learning more.

At first I thought that I had better evidence and the correct position.

I learned more, and decided that there was evidence for contrary points of view, and then I believed that people could rationalize anything and so it was a toss-up.

I learned more, and came to understand this isn't true. The evidence for my beliefs was much weaker.
+1
level 66
Aug 16, 2018
Is there a way I could contact you outside of Jetpunk? As you said, this (as well as several other things I would like to talk to you about) can't and shouldn't be done justice in the Jetpunk comments section.
+1
level 76
Aug 16, 2018
You can find me on Facebook here
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level 66
Aug 16, 2018
Thanks.
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level 57
Sep 15, 2018
@kal, it is interesting that you believe in a deterministic universe. The mainstream view in quantum mechanics is that at the very small scale many events take place in a probabilistic manner - which means that it is impossible to predict the future from the present state of the universe even in theory. There are other ideas that this might be an illusion based on undetectable smaller-scale action, but it is a minority one.
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level 76
Sep 16, 2018
I understand quantum mechanics (as well as any layman can, I guess), but I think that the people who try to use this to squeeze out some possibility for free will or something like this are being at best dishonest. On any scale that is meaningful to human beings, as far as we've been able to determine, everything follows natural laws. The arguments mounted against believing in natural laws by irrationalists can be dismissed, in my opinion, based on everything we've ever observed. For instance when someone is arguing against the Big Bang (and, inevitably, for the magic man did it hypothesis), or arguing against Evolution (and, inevitably, for the magic man did it hypothesis) and they say that you believe this stuff happened just "by random chance" (disparagingly), they are not talking about quantum mechanics, they are saying that they don't understand the natural forces behind such things.
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level 76
Sep 16, 2018
and, in some cases, it may be that science doesn't yet fully understand the natural forces behind certain things (mechanisms have been proposed, but not fully confirmed, for why the big bang occurred, or why abiogenesis on Earth occurred), but that doesn't mean that there are not natural forces behind those things. Ignorance of why something happens doesn't mean that it happened "by random chance." And quantum probability I don't think in any way justifies calling events such as those described "random."

My belief in a deterministic universe is simply that there is cause and effect. I've never heard a compelling argument for why quantum theory negates that. I could be wrong. But mostly the actual physicists and armchair philosophers who try to take this theory and massage it into an explanation for how our choices are not predetermined by physics and chemistry sound highly masturbatory to me. Just people who want to believe in the illusion of free will.
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level 76
Sep 16, 2018
and in any case, telling someone they believe in something happening by random chance as a way of trying to diminish or disparage their beliefs is always wrong, even if everything in the universe were the product of random chance, because if that's the case then trying to say that god exists outside of this somehow is just special pleading.
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level 57
Sep 16, 2018
Because of chaos theory unpredictability at a very low scale can soon become noticeable at a large scale. This means that it is entirely possible (and probable) that from the point of view of now, what will happen in (say) three years on a scale meaningful to humans really will come down largely to random chance. Also it is only because of quantum effects that stars as small as the sun are able to shine - a clear impact on humans. There is cause and effect, but there are probabilistic effects at quantum level that seem to have no cause (and this model is backed up by countless experiments). "Random" is a term that has several different meanings and I agree that telling someone they think something happened "by random chance" is a poor way of refuting it and (in the case of the Big Bang and Evolution) totally wrong. Those physicists and philosophers are right to say that physics doesn't disprove free will, but neurology and psychology almost have done.
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level 57
Sep 16, 2018
If by determinism you mean there is cause and effect you are right, but that isn't what determinism means.
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level 76
Sep 16, 2018
determinism: the doctrine that all events, including human action, are ultimately determined by causes external to the will.
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level 57
Sep 16, 2018
According to Wikipedia "The theory holds that the universe is utterly rational because complete knowledge of any given situation assures that unerring knowledge of its future is also possible." That isn't true if quantum mechanics is correct. I think maybe you slightly misunderstood the definition, or it is being used as an umbrella term in that example including some things physicists wouldn't consider determinism.
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level 76
Sep 16, 2018
The Wikipedia article also points out that it is defined and understood in different ways. The thing that you said is not what determinism is is one of those ways.
But I'm also not convinced that this aspect of quantum theory is true and that there isn't simply some other mechanism at play that we don't yet understand, and I think any scientist in the field would concede that this is possible if not probable.
But whether it's true or not I still think it's dumb to say that this means we have free will. Or that things like the Big Bang or evolution happen by "random chance." These things were caused (by natural laws, not divine intervention). They didn't "just happen." That's what I meant by deterministic. And according to several definitions I've found I wasn't misusing the term. The definition above is directly copied from definition #1 in Google.
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level 57
Sep 16, 2018
In that case I think we're probably in agreement. That just wasn't what I understood "determinism" to mean. I don't really have a problem with anyone using whatever definitions they like as long as they are consistent (which it seems you are being :) )
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level 53
Jul 13, 2018
98%! I missed the first user you feuded with. My first guesses were Relessness since it popped into my head and GeographyGeek42 (me) because I can get irritated easily.
+2
level 76
Jul 13, 2018
Never had a problem with Reless. I'm pretty sure that guy is too busy authoring quizzes to get in a fight with anyone.
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level 76
Jul 13, 2018
And.. 98%? Or 98th percentile? If the former I don't think even my mom knows me that well.
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level 76
Jul 13, 2018
But I think you must be taking the piss, because reviewing the top scores there have been 2 people who got a perfect score. One of them was me and the other I assume cheated. And the next highest score is 40/64, which would be 63% of the correct answers and put you in the 97th percentile of those who took the quiz.
+1
level 53
Jul 14, 2018
I actually got 100%. I cheated because I was bored. I said 98% because I didn't want to sound like a stalker. though it still sounds like I am stalking. But i'm not.
+3
level 76
Jul 14, 2018
tsk tsk. crime never pays. Except when you're running for president.
+1
level 15
Aug 17, 2018
Hey, Kalbahamut! I have a challenge for you: Name (without looking at anything) as many JetPunk users as you can.
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level 76
Aug 17, 2018
I think I could probably come up with at least 40 or 50 off the top of my head but I don't feel like finding out.
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level 55
Sep 4, 2018
Well, I can certainly say you've led an interesting life. This quiz was more fun than I anticipated.
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level 54
Feb 17, 2019
I managed 22 but I’ll admit most were just educated guesses and the fact I can speed type countries which is where I scored most of the points! You’ve certainly led an interesting life. Far more interesting than mine at least ;)
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level 76
Feb 22, 2019
It is possible to know every answer on this quiz even never having met me in person. I designed it that way. Everything here is the subject of either some of the quizzes I have authored or mentioned in some comments I have posted, somewhere on the site.
But since I don't expect anyone to have taken all my quizzes or read every one of my comments, I was also trying to craft the hints and answers in a way that it was possible to get all of them using educated (or random) guesses. Except for the last section about my most popular quizzes, maybe.
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level 55
Mar 25, 2019
The man in the thumbnail isn't you, is it?
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level 76
Mar 25, 2019
It's me
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level 55
Apr 6, 2019
Oh ok :)
+1
level 33
Apr 3, 2019
Fam your feet are huge
+1
level 76
Apr 3, 2019
I could add my first name to this quiz. Some people on the site have picked up on that, I've noticed.
+1
level 38
Jun 25, 2019
Golden temple is in Amritsar not in Varanasi
+1
level 76
Jun 25, 2019
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